[tex-live] "Update all installed" following virgin install does nothing

[Philip TAYLOR]

Norbert Preining wrote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> long time no hear, I was already missing your "throwing of rotten
> tomatoes at us" emails ... good to see you back!

You are very kind :-)  But if you remember, I did say
at the time that TeX Live 2011 was released that I had
no intention of using it until it was frozen in preparation
for TeX Live 2012, which must surely be Any Day Now ...

> On Do, 15 Mär 2012, Philip TAYLOR wrote:
>> As TeX Live 2011 is now approaching its sell-by date,
>> I have finally installed it on my new machine, using
>
> You could have waited a bit more and tried TL2012?

See above !

>> sense that nothing was updated).  May I ask whether this
>> is the expected behaviour, and if so, how should I now
>
> Yes, it is expected behaviour.

Yet now it no longer does it, and I spotted some
"Win32" thingy has been updated; has it perhaps,
even if expected, now been fixed ?

> On Do, 15 Mär 2012, Philip TAYLOR wrote:
>>> I've seen several times that the installer does not change the
>>> repository after the installation.
>>
>> Yes, that would indeed appear to be the source of
>> the problem.  May I propose that in TeX Live 2012,
>> the default repository be set to the network following
>> DVD-based installation since, by definition, one
>
> That was discussed, and we decided to keep the default repository
> as used at installation time.
>
>> reason this is unacceptable to the developers, then
>> could diagnostic code please be added to the "Update
>> all installed" button to warn the user that the current
>> respository is still set to the installation DVD, and
>
> Have you read the warning that was shown both in the terminal and
> in the log window of tlmgr GUI (the lower part of the GUI window?):
> ---------------
> tlmgr: no updates available

The text beyond this point does not appear.

> Your installation is set up to look on the disk for updates.
> To install from the Internet for this one time only, run
>    tlmgr -repository http://mirror.ctan.org/systems/texlive/tlnet
>
> To change the default for all future updates, run
>    tlmgr option repository http://mirror.ctan.org/systems/texlive/tlnet
> ----------------
>
> ???
>
> Furthermore, right ON THE TOPRIGHT of the tlmgr GUI window, there is
> a line
> 	Loaded repository: .......
> that *also* shows you what you are loading.
>
> Furthermore, in the "tlmgr" menu there are entries:
> 	Load default repository: ...
> 	Load default net repository: ...
>
> I think we give *enough* hints for those who care to *READ* and *LOOK*.

But you also provide an action button ("Update all installed",
or whatever) and as a naive user, that is what I home in on
and use; I certainly don't look inside menus when a button to
(apparently) do what I want is staring me in the face, nor
do I look to see if the current repository is set to the network
because I /know/ that the TeX Live installer is written by
highly intelligent people (such as your good self) who will
of course see that leaving it set to a static medium such
as a DVD will be of no use to man nor beast ...

>> that a manual change to select the network respository will
>> be required before "Update all installed" does what it
>> says on the tin ?

But why should such a change be needed ?  The installer /knows/
that the installation repository was a DVD, and that no updates
(as opposed to additions) can come therefrom, so why not set
the default repository to the network as soon as installation
is complete ?

> The button does exactely what it says, it updates all packages with respect
> to the currently loaded remote repository, as indicated right on the
> top of the tlmgr window.

Two places to look, not one.  Having tunnel vision, I looked
solely at "Update all installed", and assumed it would do
what it claimed it would do ...  And the button, of course,
says nothing about "with respect to ..."; it simply says
"update all installed".

> -------------------------
> <slightly unrelated rant ON>
> It is funny that on the one hand you ask for full automatization, and
> on the other hand complain if something is changed to your dislike
> (associations etc). It seems to me that you have very specific wishes
> and expect the installer/tlmgr/GUI work how you want it to work, without
> considering the general audience.
> <slightly unrelated rant OFF>

No, there is a world of difference between setting the default
repository for me (which I have not set, and therefore do not
care to what it is set, so long as the latter is sensible),
and changing something as fundamental to the way the O/S
works as a file association, /particularly/ when said file
association is clearly way outside of TeX Live's aegis.

> Let me know if you have any other problems. If you think that the warning
> in the lower part of the windows is not prominent enough, we might
> think about making a modal windows ....

It really does not appear at all.  This is what it says :

>   tlmgr option repository http://mirror.ctan.org/systems/texlive/tlnet
>
> Completed.

Thus the correct repository has been selected (according to the
status window, yet we both [now] know that it has not), and
the task has completed, yet nothing has been updated.

** Phil.