[tex-live] TL2017's tlpkg/installer/wget/wget.x86_64-darwin: HTTPS support not compiled in.

[Zdenek Wagner]

Hi,

I cannot agree. I avoid Windows whenever possible but I develop SW that
must run under Windows so I have o test it. Some multiplatform libraries
state that they rely upon curl which is not available in Windows and must
be installed separately. I have just searched through the whole disk. I
found two versions of curl.exe as a part of git but my users are not
supposed to have git. So without my SW with its own curl and without git
there would be no curl.exe on my Windows 7. And I do not have wget either
(I do not have TL on it). Thus it is too risky to assume that there is
curl.exe somewhere.


Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz

2018-01-31 16:01 GMT+01:00 George N. White III <gnwiii at gmail.com>:

> On 31 January 2018 at 09:17, Philip Taylor (RHUoL) <P.Taylor at rhul.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> George N. White III wrote:
>>
>> [...]  it is not unreasonable to simple state
>> that a suitable downloader must be provided before attempting to
>> run the installer.
>>
>>
>> I am sorry, George, I completely disagree.  Someone seeking to install
>> TeX Live can reasonably be assumed to know a little about computer
>> typesetting and a little about using the operating system of his/her
>> choice; there is no *a priori* evidence that he or she knows anything
>> more.  Therefore, to expect such a user to locate, download and install "a
>> suitable downloader" is (IMHO) completelu unreasonable.  A suitable
>> downloader should form an integral part of the TeX Live installer, and
>> automatically come therewith.
>>
>> Philip Taylor
>>
>
> The need to support HTTPS is what started this thread.   Downloaders that
> support HTTPS brings in many new complications such as handling HTTP
> redirects to HTTPS servers, cipher suites, and certificates.
> Most users rely on vendors to make this work, and regular updates to keep
> it going as the standards evolve.   Supporting HTTPS with TeX Live's wget
> may not be practical, and in any case is a large task.
>
>
> I work in a government research institute, so there are many TeX
> installations.  I avoid Windows, but it is the "corporate standard" so I
> can't completely avoid it.  I use 2 applications (ESA SNAP, QGIS. both with
> normal Windows installers and regular upgrades) that provide a curl.exe in
> a "private" location within the application's folders.  TeX Live users
> often continue with their original version for years. There have been
> problems where a user needed wget so copied the version from TeX Live  to a
> more convenient  location.  Then the US gov. got rid of their HTTP servers
> and users ran into (difficult to diagnose) problems with wget and HTTPS
> URL's.  My experience says there are far too many downloaders floating
> around on Windows systems already.  As file servers move to https with
> newer ciphers, downloaders that have not been updated stopped working.
> Windows applications protect themselves by including a private downloader
> (usually curl) that gets newer versions thru the application's own
> updater.
>
> Many installers based on more normal Windows standards include downloaders
> and are easier for users than the TeX Live installer.   If wget is not
> included, and not alread installed by some other packages, there does need
> to be support in the form of a list of  Windows packages with good
> installers that provide a downloader.     I don't have anaconda python on
> Windows because another work application (ArcGIS) provides a python
> system.  If the TeX Live installer uses an external downloader it may be
> useful to provide a tool that generates a list (with versions) of already
> installed downloaders and ask the user to choose the one they wish to use.
> On Unix the priorities  should have already been set using the PATH
> variable, so the choice would be between wget, curl, and gnurl.   On
> Windows a search becomes more complex, so if a downloader is not found via
> the PATH and maybe a few additional common locations, then the user may
> have to enter the location for the downloader they wish to use.
>
>
> --
> George N. White III
>
>
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