[XeTeX] Re: XeTeX Question Too Stupid for XeTeX List

[Ross Moore]

Hi Bruno, and Bob.

(Yes Bob, you can find me on this list too.
  That was a fun iChat that we had the other day!)

On 24/09/2004, at 5:22 PM, Bruno Voisin wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> Sorry for not answering your previous messages, but I'm terribly busy, 
> and every time I am already spending on the XeTeX or OS X TeX list is 
> time that I shouldn't.

Oh come on Bruno, it's the equivalent of "Professional Development".
(Surely you have that kind of thing where you work!)

Wouldn't you rather spend time on a list such as this, than going
to courses pitched at such a dumb level that you are bored stiff?

>
>> In LaTeX, I use these packages to get palatino (rm), courior (tt), 
>> and helvet (sf).
>> \usepackage{palatino}
>> \usepackage{courier}
>> \usepackage{helvet}
>>
>> How do you do that in XeTeX or XeLaTeX?
>
> I think you just don't. (BTW, your question is no stupid at all, 
> that's one many users of XeTeX, included me, must have asked, or will 
> ask, to themselves at some point.) Hence I am cc'ing the list.

Right.
Ideally these things should "just work".

That is, there should be a XeTeX equivalent of  palatino.sty  that is 
read
instead of the default:
          $TEXMF/tex/latex/psnfss/palatino.sty

Perhaps this would be in a file location:

          $TEXMF/xetex/latex/fonts/palatino.sty
  or
          $TEXMF/xetex/latex/adobefonts/palatino.sty

that is found first by
         kpsewhich -progname=xelatex  .....


This new variant of  palatino.sty  would have all the declarations
that Bruno gives below.
If there are extra (non-standard) features, then there could be
package options that allow these to be used as well.


>
> These packages rely on the fonts to be available in .pfb format, that 
> XeTeX can't use. For XeTeX to see the fonts, you would need to convert 
> them to .otf format, and use Apple's font tools to add POST tables to 
> them, and possibly do more. Jonathan did that for the CM and a couple 
> of other fonts, now in 
> /usr/local/teTeX/share/texmf.local/fonts/otf/xetex/; that's why you 
> can use them in XeTeX. However, Jonathan did the conversion with the 
> commercial FontLab, and writing equivalent scripts for the free 
> FontForge is something that Jonathan (I hope I'm summarizing correctly 
> his messages) hasn't had the time to experiment with yet. Plus there 
> is likely to be licensing issues for some fonts --- for example, 
> Apple's license can be interpreted as prohibiting the conversion of 
> the fonts coming with OS X --- but IANAL. (What I can only say is that 
> the OpenOffice.org installer converts the OS X fonts to .ttf format 
> for OOo use, so I assume the OOo guys know what they're doing.)
>
>> Pretty dumb question, but I've looked at the examples and don't 
>> really "get it". It all looks very complicated.
>
> What you can do is recreate the same kind of stuff that the above 
> packages do with the Palatino, Courier and Helvetica .pfb fonts for OS 
> X fonts directly.

Ideally someone on this list will volunteer to write appropriate XeTeX
versions of the packages  palatino.sty , courier.sty , helvetica.sty
to be included in the installer.

Of course if the fonts themselves are not in the correct form, then 
these
extra packages would need to be placed into a "holding area" not on the
default paths. This would delay complete installation until such time as
the fonts are made available, so that it becomes just a matter of moving
the package file from one directory into another (and doing  'sudo 
texhash').


>
> Something like:
>
>
> \DeclareFontFamily{U}{osxppl}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxppl}{m}{n}
>   {<-> "Palatino"}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxppl}{m}{it}
>   {<-> "Palatino\space Italic"}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxppl}{b}{n}
>   {<-> "Palatino\space Bold"}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxppl}{b}{it}
>   {<-> "Palatino\space Bold\space Italic"}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxppl}{bx}{n}
>   {<-> ssub * osxppl/b/n}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxppl}{bx}{it}
>   {<-> ssub * osxppl/b/it}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxppl}{m}{sl}
>   {<-> ssub * osxppl/m/it}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxppl}{b}{sl}
>   {<-> ssub * osxppl/b/it}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxppl}{bx}{sl}
>   {<-> ssub * osxppl/bx/it}{}
>
> \DeclareFontFamily{U}{osxphv}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxphv}{m}{n}
>   {<-> s* [0.95] "Helvetica"}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxphv}{b}{n}
>   {<-> s* [0.95] "Helvetica\space Bold"}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxphv}{bx}{n}
>   {<-> ssub * osxphvphv/b/n}{}
>
> \DeclareFontFamily{U}{osxpcr}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxpcr}{m}{n}
>   {<-> "Courier"}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxpcr}{b}{n}
>   {<-> "Courier\space Bold"}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{osxpcr}{bx}{n}
>   {<-> ssub * osxpcr/b/n}{}
>
> \renewcommand{\encodingdefault}{U}
> \renewcommand{\rmdefault}{osxppl}
> \renewcommand{\sfdefault}{osxphv}
> \renewcommand{\ttdefault}{osxpcr}
>
>
> Several concerns though:
>
> - Palatino doesn't seem to be a part of OS X. On my PowerBook, 
> purchased in May 2003, it's located in the OS 9 font folder. So it's 
> possible you don't have it if your Mac is more recent.
>
> - Helvetica and Courier seem to be only available in regular shape in 
> OS X, not oblique nor italic. Weird! In /Library/Fonts/ I have 
> Helvetica Neue which is available in many more series and shapes, 
> though I've no idea of how it got there.
>
> - All this was written in a hurry, so beware of typos if you 
> cut-and-paste the above without precautions.
>
> - The above only takes care of text fonts. Math fonts, should you need 
> them, will remain CM by default. You could get better matching weights 
> and shapes by using the belleek fonts, which I think are a free clone 
> of the commercial MathTime (having MathTime, I've never attempted yet 
> to use belleek), or even better mathpazo, or pxfonts or txfonts; they 
> are all installed in .otf form in the same time as XeTeX.

Yes; getting compatible fonts for math is still a problem.
Doubtless this will become easier in future.


Cheers,

	Ross


> Normally:
>
> belleek: math fonts for Times
> mathpazo: math fonts for Palatino
> txfonts: alternative math fonts for Times
> pxfonts: alternative math fonts for Palatino
>
> For docs, see 
> /usr/local/teTeX/share/texmf.tetex/doc/latex/psnfss/psnfss2e.pdf and 
> the related folders inside 
> /usr/local/teTeX/share/texmf.tetex/doc/fonts/.
>
> HTH,
>
> Bruno
>
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>
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Ross Moore                                         ross at maths.mq.edu.au
Mathematics Department                             office: E7A-419
Macquarie University                               tel: +61 +2 9850 8955
Sydney, Australia                                  fax: +61 +2 9850 8114
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