[XeTeX] Request for Participation (Grzegorz Murzynowski)

Thu Dec 4 23:41:01 CET 2008

Thank you for the response. My perception is that beginners don't know what
type they are. They start out by experimenting (trial-and-error) as a way of
learning TeX. Often, they do not realize what they don't know. We'll just
supply the best examples we can and explain them the best we can.

I can respond further off-list when my Mac comes back from repair. Same for
sending you a scope document.

Neale

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 10:21 AM, <xetex-request at tug.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Request for Participation (RFP) (Peter Dyballa)
>   2. Re: Could not load both Bold and BoldItalic. (Peter Dyballa)
>   3. Re: Arabic Transliteration (Gareth Hughes)
>   4. Help on pdf documents size restriction (Francisco Chaves)
>   5. Re: Could not load both Bold and BoldItalic. (Akira Kakuto)
>   6. Re: how to test whether a font exists? (Grzegorz Murzynowski)
>   7. Re: Request for Participation (RFP) (Grzegorz Murzynowski)
>   8. Re: Could not load both Bold and BoldItalic. (Stephen Moye)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:57:45 +0100
> From: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa at Web.DE>
> Subject: Re: [XeTeX] Request for Participation (RFP)
> To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other platforms <xetex at tug.org>
> Message-ID: <7BE66394-BAF2-488D-BC3D-9E7D5B6D528E at Web.DE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
>        format=flowed
>
>
> Am 04.12.2008 um 00:23 schrieb Neaale Hirsh:
>
> > \usepackage[cm-default]{fontspec}       % XeLaTeX only
> > \defaultfontfeatures{Mapping=tex-text}  % XeLaTeX only
> > \setmainfont{Times New Roman}           % XeLaTeX only
> > \documentclass[12pt]{article}           % XeLaTeX only
> > This is some text                       % XeLaTeX only
>
>
> Neale,
>
> can it be that you assume fontspec is XeTeX's LaTeX?
>
> As you wrote, XeTeX is able to use fonts in *some* way. As TeX can.
> LaTeX introduced, quite late, a useful scheme to handle fonts (New
> Font Selection Scheme, NFSS). Because XeTeX is enabling this fontspec
> is meant to access non-TeX features of non-TeX fonts. In XeLaTeX,
> XeTeX's LaTeX variant.
>
> So I diagnose that you need to learn LaTeX to understand fontspec's
> add-ons. This would allow you to correct what I have cited (assuming
> it's intended as the start of a XeLaTeX document).
>
>
> What I can offer is answers to questions that might have asked years
> ago and have now forgotten. If you could repeat my questions ? I
> still have (improved) answers! With these questions and (more)
> answers you could compile the work. It will help both: you and other
> XWPs.
>
> I would also comment on the compilation.
>
>
> Answers
>
> Xunicode is meant for those XeLaTeX users that keep writing \"a
> instead of ?. And so on.
>
> Xltxtra helps in using macros like \XeTeX or \XeLaTeX. It adds
> commands like \textsuperscript and \textsubscript, which are useful
> when you write about a green-house problem caused by CO2 or CH4 or
> H2O and also when you try to abbreviate the costs that banks cost
> nowadays. The \vfrac command (which works better than xfrac) could be
> used to describe that in some not so far future carbon-dioxide could
> fulfil one hundredth of the Earth's atmosphere. (There is also a now
> working \showhyphens command, but this is of a rather esoteric use.)
>
> --
> Greetings
>
>   Pete
>
> Real Time, adj.:
>        Here and now, as opposed to fake time, which only occurs there and
> then.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:15:21 +0100
> From: Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyballa at Web.DE>
> Subject: Re: [XeTeX] Could not load both Bold and BoldItalic.
> To: news2 at nililand.de,  Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other
>        platforms <xetex at tug.org>
> Message-ID: <2659AED7-15DA-4E7C-864C-330847D6CE6F at Web.DE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> Am 04.12.2008 um 15:40 schrieb Ulrike Fischer:
>
> > I prefer to check the terminal output:
> >
> > This is the message if xdvipdfmx fails for some reason:
> >
> > Output file removed.
> >
> > Error 1 (driver return code) generating output;
> > file test-xetex.pdf may not be valid.
>
> In Mac OS X this means that when you're lucky xdvipdfmx's output was
> not written to disk.
>
> Anyway, computers are like women (and men): they can tell you
> everything that you don't need to believe. Double-checking is better.
>
>
> Maybe Kakuto-san has a better explanation!
>
> --
> Mit friedvollen Gr??en
>
>   Pete
>
> We have to expect it, otherwise we would be surprised.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:19:30 +0000
> From: Gareth Hughes <garzohugo at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [XeTeX] Arabic Transliteration
> To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other platforms <xetex at tug.org>
> Message-ID: <4937F502.8060902 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi Mohammad!
>
> Mohammad Gharaibeh wrote:
> > thank you for your help, but there are some questions left
> > open. I don?t know how to use the Unicode characters in
> > XeTeX. I already put my editor font encoding on UTF-8.
>
> Firstly, you need to be using a font that has these characters. As
> Tilman has already mentioned, Gentium (from http://www.sil.org/) and
> Linux Libertine have them.
>
> Secondly, the editor you are using to prepare your document might not
> display these characters in its default font. I use gedit which has very
> good Unicode support. Which editor are you using?
>
> Thirdly, there are three ways you can get these characters in your
> editor. The simplest is to use a character palette/map, which most OSes
> have fitted as standard: find the character, copy and paste. Another way
> is to use an input method like SCIM or a virtual keyboard set up with
> the characters you want (you could play around with Yudit ?
> http://www.yudit.org/ ? it is a text editor with built-in input methods,
> or BP's suggestion of BabelMap/Pad might help). The third way is to use
> Tilman's method of \char"0351 for ? ?ayn and \char"0357 for ? hamza, but
> I find this a bit clunky compared to using a good Unicode text editor.
>
> If you are still having difficulty, it would be very useful to know
> which operating system and text editor you are using, because these are
> not really XeTeX issues.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Gareth.
>
> --
> Department of Eastern Christianity
> Oriental Institute
> Pusey Lane
> Oxford
> OX1 2LE
>
> +44 (0)1865 610227
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:31:38 -0500
> From: "Francisco Chaves" <pachopepe at gmail.com>
> Subject: [XeTeX] Help on pdf documents size restriction
> To: xetex at tug.org
> Message-ID:
>        <cad5740812040731m6b31fd07h7d70d547289fc18c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi all
>
> I am working on project and I am generating pdf documents using XeLaTeX,
> but
> I have a constraint size of 35KB including a digital signature (more or
> less
> 8KB). I 've used differents fonts such as  "URW Gothic L" having as a final
> result a pdf  documet size of 24KB. Nevertheless,  I have to use the Arial
> Narrow font and I only have the ttf files from windows, but with this font
> the pdf size increases to more than 45KB.
>
> What would you suggest I have to do in order to reduce the pdf document
> size?
> I have asked my self about what are the best type of fonts to reduce the
> pdf
> size  (otf, ttf, pfa, pfb, ...)? but I have not come up with an answer.
> does exist a converter between ttf and any other font format in order to
> obtain a better document size?
>
> Thanks in advance
> --
> Francisco Jose CHAVES
> PhD. en Informatique
> ENS Lyon, France
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:40:41 +0900
> From: Akira Kakuto <kakuto at fuk.kindai.ac.jp>
> Subject: Re: [XeTeX] Could not load both Bold and BoldItalic.
> To: xetex at tug.org, Peter_Dyballa at web.de
> Cc: news2 at nililand.de
> Message-ID: <200812041540.mB4Feg3a028490 at jupiter>
> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> > Then these fonts aren't PostScript Type 1.
>
> PostScript Type 1 fonts can be used by XeTeX-xdvipdfmx without
> tfm fonts. Of course you have to make cache for the type1 by fc-cache.
> Please test
> \font\f="Utopia/R"
> \f This is a test.
> \bye
>
> Best,
> Akira
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:46:43 +0100
> From: Grzegorz Murzynowski <natror at o2.pl>
> Subject: Re: [XeTeX] how to test whether a font exists?
> To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other platforms <xetex at tug.org>
> Message-ID: <4937FB63.4020002 at o2.pl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Thanks.
> It really _is_ very slow in my system.
>
> Will Robertson pisze:
> > On 04/12/2008, at 3:25 AM, Grzegorz Murzynowski wrote:
> >
> >> I know it's basic but I don't find in The XeTeX Companion a primitive
> >> for testing existence of a font.
> >>
> >> It would be nice to write something like
> >>
> >> \iffontexists "Garamond Premier Pro" \setmainfont{Garamond Premier
> >> Pro}
> >> \else \typeout{@@@@ no Garamond Premier Pro, leaving the default
> >> font}\fi
> >>
> >> Any suggestions?
> >
> > The reason this primitive doesn't exist is for performance reasons; it
> > can be very slow to check for the non-existence of a font.
> >
> > Jonathan has a sample file floating around called
> > "testfontavailability" which I've reproduced below; it should be a
> > good starting point :)
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Will
> >
> > % Macros to try and find available fonts for XeTeX sample docs
> > %
> > % Usage:
> > %
> > % \testFontIsAvailable{font-name}
> > % sets \ifFontIsAvailable according to whether or not it could be found
> > %
> > % \FindAnInstalledFont{font-name/alternative/another/yet-another}{\cs}
> > % searches for an available font from among the names given,
> > % and \def's the control sequence \cs to the first one found
> > % or to <No suitable font found> if none (which will subsequently
> > % cause an error when used in a \font command).
> > \newif\ifFontIsAvailable
> > \def\testFontAvailability#1{
> > \count255=\interactionmode
> > \batchmode
> > \let\preload=\nullfont
> > \font\preload="#1" at 10pt
> > \ifx\preload\nullfont \FontIsAvailablefalse
> > \else \FontIsAvailabletrue \fi
> > \interactionmode=\count255
> > }
> > \def\FindAnInstalledFont#1#2{
> > \expandafter\getFirstFontName#1/\end
> > \let\next\gobbleTwo
> > \ifx\trialFontName\empty
> > \def#2{<No suitable font found>}%
> > \else
> > \testFontAvailability{\trialFontName}
> > \ifFontIsAvailable
> > \edef#2{\trialFontName}%
> > \else
> > \let\next\FindAnInstalledFont
> > \fi
> > \fi
> > \expandafter\next\expandafter{\remainingNames}{#2}
> > }
> > \def\getFirstFontName#1/#2\end{\def\trialFontName{#1}\def
> > \remainingNames{#2}}
> > \def\gobbleTwo#1#2{}
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > XeTeX mailing list
> > postmaster at tug.org
> > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:47:23 +0100
> From: Grzegorz Murzynowski <natror at o2.pl>
> Subject: Re: [XeTeX] Request for Participation (RFP)
> To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other platforms <xetex at tug.org>
> Message-ID: <4937FB8B.1060104 at o2.pl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Neaale Hirsh pisze:
> > once per document; we adjust the fonts or font style for
> > captions, math, headings, etc. In XeTeX and XeLaTeX, we
> > stumble around until things work, more or less:
> >
> > \font\"Monaco" at 12 pt                % XeTeX only
> Probably it should be
> \font\A="Monaco" at 12 pt
> And it's _not_ Plain XeTeX only. But why to write a hundred lines like
> this when LaTeX/fontspec & documentclass has already done that for you?
>
> What kind of beginner do you mind: is that a beginner who wants to have
> their text typeset anyhow or is that a ?beginner? who wants to prepare a
> book for printing and set all the layouts?
>
> >
> > The above approaches are not compared in the existing
> > fontspec user manual, of course, because the readers
> > don't need it. But I feel certain that the next ex-word-
> > processor (XWP) person like me will cross the same
> > territory and he or she will not find much help in the
> > existing user manual. It wasn't written for XWPs.
> Again, what kind of XWP do you have in mind? If they are used to
> WYSIWYG, why should they learn low-lewel (Plain) XeTeX commands not just
>  high(er) level LaTeX/fontspec's?
>
> >
> > Collaboration Model
> >
> > This ML is quite handy for announcing progress and
> > making drafts available for comment. The actual business
> > of getting organized and having dialogues about the
> > topics will be done via ordinary email. That's the
> > collaboration model I'm used to.
>
> If you're not discouraged by my remarks as far, you can put my email
> address to the mailing list of the project.
> I probably have not much time to give to your project but probably I can
> be helpful sometimes since I have some experience in teaching LaTeX the
> total beginners used to M$ Word.
>
> > Our Friends, xltxtra and xunicode
> >
> > These packages are natural to you, but they're not natural to
> > a beginner who chooses one set of problems at a time.
> >
> > Feel free to invoke these packages in (say) 20% of your
> > examples. We'll cover the packages eventually, but we need
> > a success first.
> >
> I think a beginner who migrates from a WYSIWYG to LaTeX should learn to
> begin their documents with
>        \documentclass{documentclass}
>        \usepackage{xltxtra}
> that loads all three XeLaTeX basics. Since a XWPs has no bad habbits or
> Plain habbits, they should learn a good XeLaTeX habbit from the very
> beginning. SO my opinion is xunicode and xltxtra should be used all the
> time. (In fact, I use them all the time and don't know what exactly they
> do.)
>
>
> > If you're interested, send me your name and I'll send you
> > version 1 of the scope of the manual. Your
> > contributions will make up version 2. Then a couple of
> > drafts will follow with requests for comment.
> >
> > Fontspec is a small package from the user's point of view.
>
> We have at least two kinds of (La)TeX users and I'm not quite clear
> which one you have in mind:
>
> In my opinion
> fontspec should be considered a basic and fundamentally important
> package from the point of view of a typesetter/typographer user.
>
> On the other hand, if we are talking of a user who just wants to write
> their article to a journal, they should not be interested in fontspec at
> all (the journal's document class should provide all the font settings),
> they don't even has to know about XeTeX.
>
> > A manual could be produced in a couple of months if people
> > want it.
>
> My name is Grzegorz Murzynowski, my email address: natror (ape sign) o2
> (decimal point) pl (as the sender of this post)
> and you can call me Natror for short.
>
> Best,
>
> Grzegorz Murzynowski (Natror).
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:21:49 -0500
> From: Stephen Moye <stephenmoye at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [XeTeX] Could not load both Bold and BoldItalic.
> To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other platforms <xetex at tug.org>
> Message-ID: <11246252009702582003283379729369482776-Webmail at me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>  On Thursday, December 04, 2008, at 10:40AM, "Akira Kakuto" <
> kakuto at fuk.kindai.ac.jp> wrote:
> >> Then these fonts aren't PostScript Type 1.
> >
> >PostScript Type 1 fonts can be used by XeTeX-xdvipdfmx without
> >tfm fonts. Of course you have to make cache for the type1 by fc-cache.
> >Please test
> >\font\f="Utopia/R"
> >\f This is a test.
> >\bye
> >
> >Best,
> >Akira
>
> Hmmm... I'm not sure that I understand. Could you please spell out how it
> is that xdvipdfmx can be made to use PostScript Type 1 fonts. I am using a
> Mac and, in my experience at least, the use of fc-cache has not been
> necessary.
>
> Stephen Moye
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> End of XeTeX Digest, Vol 57, Issue 10
> *************************************
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