[XeTeX] xunicode and TIPA

[Alan Munn]

Hi Ross,

On Jul 28, 2010, at 10:53 PM, Ross Moore wrote:

> Hi Alan,
>
> On 29/07/2010, at 8:34 AM, Alan Munn wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Ross.  What I'm mainly looking for is a fairly simple way  
>> of using legacy TIPA code, and I don't know whether this would  
>> cause any problems or not.  I also don't quite know how much  
>> xunicode itself emulates TIPA and how much it doesn't.  Right now  
>> there are various things that don't work, but I don't know enough  
>> about how xunicode works (and probably the relevant fonts  
>> themselves) to make a new package that would make the emulation  
>> more complete.
>>
>> For example, (and not surprisingly) the following commands are  
>> defined in TIPA, but don't work with xunicode:
>>
>> \*<char> depending on <char> produces the turned version of <char>  
>> for {fkrtw} or a specific other character for {jnhlz} else a non- 
>> IPA version of <char>
>>
>> \;<char> produces a small caps version for {EJAHLUBGNR}
>> \:<char> produces a retroflex version for {dlnrRstz}
>
> The problem is that these macros are already defined in TeX,
> at least in math-mode.
>
> Look at the results of the following to confirm this.
>    \show\*  \show\:  \show\;

Yes, I'm aware of that.  (In fact TIPA has a "safe" option to turn  
these off).  The rationale given by the TIPA author was that heavy  
math use and phonetics use are unlikely to appear in the same  
document, which is probably true. He also provided replacements for  
the same commands in math mode.  But they really only arise within the  
IPA environment or \textipa

>
> I need explicit examples of how TIPA uses these, to try to
> design the best way to support them in Xunicode.
>
> If we can guarantee that they will only be used
> within {ipa} {IPA} environments, or \textipa{...}
> then support can be added within Xunicode.
> If you want them outside such environments, then you'll need
> to do it with an extra package (that can require Xunicode).
>
>
>>
>> etc.
>
> How many others are there in this 'etc.' ?

The complete set of dangerous ones are:

\|, \*, \;, \:, \!, (and possibly \s)

>
>>
>> These commands are defined in the following way in tipa.sty
>>
>> \DeclareTextCommand{\:}{T3}[1]{#1}
>> \DeclareTextAccentDefault{\:}{T3}
>> \DeclareTextComposite{\:}{T3}{d}{227}
>
> Clearly these are specific to T3 encoding, which is now not
> relevant.

Yes, I realise that; it seemed that the \DeclareTextComposite command  
is similar to \DeclareEncodedCompositeCharacter in xunicode.

> So I really need to see example usages, to work
> out what is needed, and to supply examples for testing.

I've attached a sample tipa file exemplifying all the commands in  
action and their output.

>
>>
>> etc.
>>
>> If I were to do the same thing using xunicode how would I do it?
>>
>> Also (and more suprisingly) \c{c} doesn't seem to work, but gives
>>
>> Undefined control sequence \realLaTeXcedilla
>
> Hmm. Not sure why this happens.
> Can you send a LaTeX preamble, and simple example.

Also attached.

>
>
>>
>> Anyway, I'd be happy to do some of the work, but I'm somewhat in  
>> the dark as to how to start.
>
> It's not as easy as you might think it ought to be.
> This is because you want the definitions to be compatible
> with other usages of the macro-name, and have flexibility
> for different possible encodings.

Perhaps, but I'm willing to learn.

If you want to continue the conversation off list, that's fine with me.

Alan

-- 
Alan Munn
amunn at gmx.com

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